Feedback on the alleged torture of Iraqi prisoners

Bart:
 
You are way off base on this.
I have not served in combat but did serve in the Marine Corps.
 
The military attracts a certain number of brutal and ruthless people who enjoy their perceptions of their power.
Such people will commit torture on day one or day 365, regardless of whatever pressures they are or are not under.

Out of 150,000 people, sure, you're going to get some bad ones.
 

The real issue here is that the United States has unleashed the dogs of war, and some of the beasts are quite ravenous.
The war should be stopped and all or our troops should come home - the good and the bad.
 
When the bad get back, they should be locked-up, just like we would do with any war criminal.
 
Bob
San Diego
 

But Bob, you said you were in the military.
Should you be locked up?
How do we tell the "good" from the "bad?"


Bart cop,

There is a report on CBS revealing that the U.S. Army had not bothered to even train
the troops in the Geneva Convention!!!

When troops are 'convinced' that Iraq was involved in 911, and that Osama BinForgotten
and Saddam are pals, then up pops the brain fart instructing the trooper to "get some" for
all the people killed in New York. This is where, in my opinion, the "command structure"
has completely failed! The officers and NCOs are derelict in controlling their troops, therefore,
torture, rape (yes, men raping men) and murder is common.
 

In 'Nam the Marines had orders to turn over all prisoners to the Vietnamese troops.
This action allowed the U.S. to have 'deniability' when asked, "Does the U.S. torture Vietnamese prisoners?"

I was assigned to the Fourth Marine Regiment (presently surrounding Fallujah) and sat in on several torture
sessions of prisoners. Strange how there was always an American "officer (no visible rank insignia or unit insignia)" present!
I never thought that what I witnessed would bother me, however, here it is 36 years later and I see the one particular
prisoner who would not talk. He was an older man with hair turning white at the temples. He endured hours of gradually
increasing violence to his body but never said a word! The torturer threatened to kill him with a bayonet when the
American "officer" intervened. When I saw the prisoner the next morning the man had his fingers, hands, arms and legs
broken. He was in shock and being placed on a helicopter.

Your statement that these kids are going to be upgefucht after their tour is on the money.
I am waking up with that prisoner in the morning, and I think about him during the day.
I will never forget him nor the others.

bikertrash
 

BT, thanks - that's the kind of straight-talking feedback I was hoping to get.


Subject: Combat had nothing to do with it

Bart,

This was not being done to the Iraqi prisoners in the heat of battle.  This is a top down problem and blame
should not stop at the one-star level. Rumsfeld is the one who set up the circumstances for these hate crimes
and should share the cell with these young men and no one should look in for a few days.

Behaviors like this went on in Viet Nam and when Kerry brought it up he was attacked as though bringing
it up was worse than doing it.  Just like the stain on the dress was worse than murdering thousands.

jim
 

Jim, I'm not saying the suspects are guilty of entrapment, but I'll guess most soldiers signed up
for the weekends thing, not a year plus of living in a hellhole, fearing for their lives.

History tells us once you see the enemy as less than human, all bets are off.  Those suspects had jobs
like you and me a couple of years ago, then Bush went nuts and now every day might be their last.


Bart,

I spent a year in Vietnam, and though I wouldn't describe my time as serious combat, I got shot at and I shot back.
I'm currently a National Officer in Vietnam Veterans Against the War and over the past twenty years I've talked
to dozens of other vets who served in conflicts from World War I to the present.

The military brainwashes it's members during basic training. How else do you convert a  god-fearing young boy
or girl into a trained killer in a few months?

First the recruits are broken down - physically and mentally. The haircut and the uniform begin their loss of individuality.
Their anchor to any prior life (and it's values) is lost.

The physical stress and constant exhaustion compound this breakdown.
After the recruits hit bottom they are built back up in the military image.

Then the military goes one step further (and this applies to the treatment of those Iraqi prisoners), they dehumanize
the enemy. It's easier to hate, or to kill (or mistreat) someone who is less than human. A "Hun" can be illustrated as
a mad beast.  A German citizen might have a wife or a family.

In Vietnam the enemy were "gooks," "slopes," "zips," and even the somewhat more respectful "Charlie"
or "Victor Charlie"  still didn't recognize the enemy as an equal.

In Desert Storm the Iraqis were "camel jockeys," "rag heads," "sand monkeys" etc. and could be treated as the
sub-humans those names implied. I haven't had a chance to talk to any of the current crop of veterans, but I
suspect similar things are happening today.

John Z


Hey Bart,

   I think what these Army Reservists did is of course, terrible, but I must ask the question: Why are the Army Reserves
over there running a POW prison at all?  The Army Reserves are weekend warriors, not full-time soldiers.  They shouldn't
have been sent there at all, and from everything I've seen- torture, murder, and mistreatment of Iraqis who should have all
the rights and privileges of a prisoner of war- These Army Reservists are apparently not trained well enough, not very well
disciplined, and not given a decent chain of command to refer to when they have questions about procedure.  Simply put,
the  people who are over there representing the U.S. Army Reserves were never meant to see major combat unless it came
to American Soil. They are not full-fledged soldiers, and they have no business being overseas doing Bush's dirty work.

  It's no wonder it's such a mess over there. They sent over a bunch of part-time soldiers to die without proper equipment
or training.  I agree that the "fog of war" can mess with a soldier's head, and make them do horrible things, but we must first
ask ourselves if these people had ANY business being in the middle of such a SNAFU in the first place.

They should all be back here in America, making stupid mistakes in college or at work. Not in Iraq.
That's why we have a full-time Army.

Wilder K. W



 

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