Note:  When I did yesterday's update, I was under the impression this was the real Al martin.
           His people have assured me it is not.      Good thing, because "Al" gets beat up real good.
           But since I thought it was Al when I answered it, I was waaaaaaay too polite.
           Forgive me for crying "wolf" on the "celebrity debate."

From: (The real ) Al Martin

Subject: Your web site

Dear Sirs,

I sort of enjoy your material.  It is nice to be able to read what the other side is printing and many times
it is unintentionally very funny, especially the rants and raving.  This site is kind of like a looser version
of buzzflash but still in the same vein.  A long time ago I learned that it is a waste of time to expect
such a venue to have even a nodding acquaintance with the truth and with that in mind, you did not disappoint.

Al, let me say it's an honor to engage in debate with someone of your caliber.
I hope you'll be able to back up your charge that I have "no acquantance with the truth."

If you're successful, you'll be the first.
I am overcome with joy and anticipation at the thought of an actual battle with a real combatant,
so let's get into it.

The outlandish charges are a near parody of themselves and provide a great deal of humorous entertainment.
The comment about the Bill Clinton, aka Horndog, economic miracle is a real side splitter.
Old Willard had nothing to do with any such economic growth.

First, not to insult you, but my first thought is of Maureen Dowd.
At first glance, you seem to dislike Bush and Clinton equally, which makes me wonder where you're coming from.
I don't know you well enough to know if you're a "green," or an anarchist or what, but as a rule,
most people don't dislike Bush and Clinton equally, so it will be interesting to see how this pans out.

As far as your contention that Clinton had "nothing" to do with the economy, the facts seem to say otherwise.
Without getting into a mountain of specifics, could we at least agree that the action Clinton did NOT take,
such as a massive tax cut or a monstrously huge new spending spree, helped the economy grow?

Is it your contention that there was no "Clinton Miracle?
Or are you saying Clinton "just got lucky?"


 You said, "Old Willard had nothing to do with any such economic growth."

 If you can look at these charts and say The Clinton Miracle did not happen, I'll buy you dinner.
 If you want to go with the "Clinton got lucky" excuse, please explain why republican presidents
 always fail to get lucky, and why the democrats always seem to.

 Me? I'd hate to rest my case on the "luck factor," after seeing these charts.

He was far too busy counting the money from China, working as the desk clerk at the Lincoln
Bedroom Motel (cash only, please) and fabricating the Whopper of the Day.  Most of the wealth
from the '90s was in the form of the bubble inflated by earnings expectations, not by actual goods and
service produced or provided.  His corporate buddies jacked up the book value of the stocks and then
bailed out just before the fall.  It was the small individual investors who really took it in the shorts.

 Al, I was hoping you'd take your leaps in smaller steps.
"The China money" is a detail-laden journey I've yet to take, because I've never heard anyone with credibility
 make that charge, so I've never heard the Clinton rebuttal to it. As far as the Lincoln Bedroom, please name
 for me the last president who refused to allow contributors to stay there. Your best shot would probably be,
"Well, Clinton did it more," which possibly might be true - but I'm sure Bush 43 has topped him.

 Matter of fact, just leveling that charge is, by definition, a helpful prop for Bush.
 I'm surprised to hear you come to his defense.

And the Whopper of the Day?
Please, Al, name for the the last president we had who always told the truth every day.
You can't hold Clinton to a higher standard than other presidents.

I've been around a while and have seen the administrations of some 11 presidents come and go.
George Will once stated that he did not know if Clinton was the worst president we ever had,
but he was the worst person we ever had as president.  I still think that he will be recorded in
history as the worst president.  He certainly was the worst one in my lifetime.

Good God, did you really say that?
You quote George Will when you want to be taken seriously?

To whom are you comparting the president who presided over our most peaceful and prosperous
eight years of the 20th Century?  As I said in my opening, until you say something positive about
a former president, I have no idea to whom you're comparing Clinton.

If you don't look for peace and prosperity in a president, what criteria do you use?
Fidelity to his wife?
That would make Carter the best president of our lifetime?

And answer this, please:
1. Did Clinton take millions from big tobacco?
2. Did Clinton take millions from the NRA?
3. Did Clinton jump into bed with whores like Bennett, Rush and Dr Laura?
    No, he was better than that, but you fail to give him credit.

I clearly remember December 7, 1941 and last September 11th was a flashback for me.
President Bush is right -- this is war but unlike WWII, we are not fighting a set of particular
nations per se, but the ideology of terrorism.  Those nations that give aid, comfort and support
for the terrorists have made themselves targets just as if their own air forces flew the planes
into the WTC and the Pentagon.

That was an abrupt topic shift. I feel like I'm on Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea.
I will try to compensate.

If you clearly remember Pearl Harbor, you're in your mid-seventies, at least. Is your age a factor
in your hatred (or dislike) for Clinton? Did powerfil men not have sex with young women in the 40's?
Is that the base of your anger towards Clinton?  So far, you've mentioned no other evidence,
at least no evidence not eclipsed by Reagan, Bush and Bush..

America carries a heavy burden as the rest of the world looks to us and our brave military to
clean up the messes around the world.  We are expected to police every bad neighborhood, fix the
infrastructures, provide food and clean water, cure illnesses and do all of this without producing
so much as a cubic foot of polluted air or a gallon of polluted water.  Meanwhile, the socialist/communist
nations of the world go on their merry way abusing their people, laying waste to the land, robbing
everyone left and right, stirring up trouble and they can cap this all off by producing an ugly brown cloud
two miles thick over southeast Asia.  I believe in this great nation and its Constitution.  It was founded
on conservative principles of limited government, individual rights from God and set the stage for the
greatest economic engine in the history of mankind which as given people all over the world the
highest standard of living they have ever known.  Yes, there are pockets of misery but if you look
at the governments in those places, you will note that they are of the socialist/communist variety.


(The real)  Al Martin
Portland, OR

Al, not sure what the point of that last paragraph was, my best guess
would be you're behind Bush on his withdrawal from the Kyoto Protocols.
Maybe you're a bigger Bush fan than I realized?

I look forward to your rebuttal,

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