From: grae@tir.com

Subject: Doves vs. Hawks

I do not want to urge anyone to stop dissenting, but I would like to
encourage everyone to be a little more conscientous [not necessarily polite]
toward those they disagree with regarding retaliation and vengeance.  That
people are castigating Bart for "going over to the dark side" for wanting to
see a swift and complete reaction to the terrorist actions is verging on the
knee-jerk sentimentality of the religious-right.  It does not seem that he is
necessarily over-reacting:  He wants there to be no chance for this to happen again.

Conversely, those that are accused of wanting to roll over seem not to be
given a fair shake either.  I'm not trying to read minds, but I think most
rational people just do not want the American war machine to be launched
without good and sound judgement; a strong but long leash.

Terrorist do not care who gets in the way of their actions and their target.
Even their own people:  It is unbelievable that any American pilot was
forced to guide those planes; those responsible for orchestrating the attack
would not depend on being able to coerce responsible pilots.

America should continue to develop a different attitude.  That innocent
civilians will die in this confrontation is inevitable; too many already
have.  With intelligent, surgical strikes, future civilian losses can be
minimized.  Bart's call for "glassing" them is extreme, but retaliation must
be severe--let's just keep our nuclear arsenal right where it is.

With the support of the international community, it is important that the
American government not be seen to act haphazardly and lead with cold,
reasoned actions.  The American government must act in concert with other
governments--so long as that support comes without ridiculous delay or
obstruction--so the threat can most effectively be contained and eliminated
for the safety of the world population.  It does not seem that the American
government needs to be too worried about appearing to be the global bully
but, hopefully, this administration will take this opportunity to correct
its newly-made isolationist policies.

I believe that vengeance is best moderated with justice.

Gil

Subject: Another INANE BUSH Quote that doesn't help.....
To: bartcop@bartcop.com
 

This weekend George Jr. in the awkward unsure halting way we've come to
expect urged the American people to:
 

"Go back...to your.....shops....fields..........factories."
 

Shops? Fields?!!!  Factories?!  WTF?!  This shows how truly out of touch,
elitist and disconnected he inherently must be to say something so bizarrely
narrow minded.  He must think there are only two Americas, the corporate
magnates (wealthy 1%), and the other 99% who fucking pick grapes, and bail hay.

I don't work in a factory, pick cotton in a field, or bake pies for a living....
(neither am I an Enron executive), and yes...I too, will be going back to work on Monday.

Boy, I bet somebody like me really confuses Bush.

Sheesh....I WAS complaining about his being a no-show early on in all this--
now I realize I was being a bit dishonest with myself and others, because I don't really
WANT to see or hear him, he seems to put me under even greater duress.
He'd do better passing anything of import we may need to know to Rudy Guiliani.
 

From: (withheld)

Subject: Doves

BC said “By the way, you never said what your answer was... “

Let’s see. You want me to come up with an alternative to bombing civilians in Kabul? Okay, I think can take that.

I was in the Navy a few years ago on a nuclear-powered guided missile cruiser (USS Mississippi). I was a technician (in Navy parlance, a DS, or data systems technician) who worked in the computer room of the ship. We were a feisty bunch. Most of us were college graduates who had to deal with officer idiots who knew much less than us. We did our best to make fools of anyone who underestimated us anytime we could. It was a hobby, you might say.

Anyway, we knew a lot about NTDS (the Navy’s tactical data systems, or tactical network).  We knew the capability of this system, and also the stupidity of the Pentagon. When I was in, the Navy computers couldn’t talk to the Army computers, who couldn’t talk to the Airforce Computers and so forth. Desert Storm changed all that. Before I got out, the Airforce could talk to the Navy. And since the Army was linked with the AF on J-Stars (look it up), the Navy was indirectly linked with the Army. But still the miscommunication of the different services’ computer networks was a problem.

You might be saying, ‘what is your point, Derek?’ I’m getting at that. When I was on a cruise in the Mediterranean, I read The Hunt For Red October. I was amazed at the accuracy of technical detail. Tom Clancy wrote like he knew us. I was friends with sonar and so I studied those operations. Clancy knew it all! I couldn’t believe his attention to detail.

A few years ago I read a Clancy book called Op Center. It was about an Allied Canadian-American operations command post in a foreign country that could see almost everything. With my knowledge of military operations and American satellites, I knew he was showing the same level of detail. This ‘Ops Center’ could direct commandos to a pin-point location.

I could go on, but I think you get my drift. We could get bin Ladin if we wanted. We could wipe out his terrorist training camps. Something tells me that Bush doesn’t want to do that.

You want answers? I don’t have them. What I’m talking about is surely classified. My question is, if we have the capability to go after only the terrorists, why is Bush stiring up war fever to get Americans to kill inocent Afghanis?

Derek
 

They say when Nixon went to China, our spy satellites could tell which guy was Nixon
when he stepped off the plane and which one was Mao, or whoever met him.
Theis was in what, 1972?

Back then, they said they could read license plates on cars with that 30-year old equipment.

These days, they can probably read newsprint, so I agree with you.
Why can't we find his ass and just smoke him?
 

From: brewcrew11@prodigy.net

Subject: Bush's bunker crawl

I was wondering if anyone has checked Karl Roves cell phone records
to see if any calls were placed to the White House switchboard.
 

                                Jeff Brewington

 I would really like your thoughts this.

"America can expect the same. No one should doubt that even the most successful
retaliatory strike may have the inescapable collateral effect of creating another battalion
of orphans willing to martyr themselves to strike back at America. That's not reason enough
to ground the bombers; but it is reason to be cautious about whether even emphatic military
successes alone can win what Bush last week called this "new kind of war."
 

I just don't care.
If they all want to be martyrs, they will all become martyrs.
Let's assist them, but they have to do it in their own country.

Doing nothing is surrendering.
I don't care if they promise 500 new martyrs for every one we eliminate.

From:  claylandon@hotmail.com

You called 911 and gave CPR. I salute you.

I'm ashamed to say I don't even know CPR. And I have a four-year old
son who loves to TRY to swim... I never let him out of my sight when water
is around but what if? I didn't want to think about it until now.

I'm  making two phone calls after I get offline... one to learn CPR as soon as possible
and the other to 1-800-GIVE-LIFE so I can give blood for the first time in years.

From: texrank@juno.com

Subject: Fried Chicken

I made your fried chicken recipe for my wife this evening and it was very good.

Keep up the good work and don't let up on Smirk. Notice that hardly
anyone has mentioned that Bill Clinton, who was in Australia when the
attack happened, managed to hop on an air force jet and was in NYC
talking to the families of missing people two days before smirk got to
NY? The Big Dog came with 3 SS agents, an aide & Chelsea. People were
hugging Clinton and talking to him. When weak and stoopid showed up they
cordoned off half the city, had fighter jets flying overhead and an army
of guards. You could say it was due to terrorist threats, but it seems to
be SOP for smirk.

Subject: Suggestion to help our NY Canine friends

Bartcop,

Last night I saw a story about a NY K-9 police dog that was lost in the aftermath of the WTC collapse.
I wanted to let dog owners know one way they can contribute. My dog, Emmett, has been donating blood
through the Eastern Veterinary Blood Bank for 3 years now. I'm sure there are other organizations
like this in the US. Their web site is www.evbb.com. Just another way for us all to contribute.

Thanks

JB and Emmett in VA