Subject: Proof Before War
It's occured to me that the "mastermind" behind
the attack is dead.
Very likely the one that learned how to fly back in '96 in California.
According to how they've been describing the Terrorist networks operate, someone has and idea,
bounces off others in "the network" eventually meeting with Bin Laden or someone else with the
money to pull it off and if approved gets funded. This fits very well with the thought that it was
that guy that came up with the idea, researched it and learned how to fly on his own and sometime
in early 2000 got the approval and funding, EVERYONE else seems to have trained since the
spring or summer of last year. (as an aside consider who was leading the polls for pres at that time ....).
It may very well have been Bin Laden that provided
the financing, and frankly I think one of the first
targets should BE the money trail and locking it down, starving them out so to speak, and I'd hate to
say it but it would be alot more effective to "disappear" Bin Laden then to publicly kill or arrest him
thus creating a martyr. Along with as many other terrorist "Investors" or "financiers" as are practical
(could be a tough job in the case of governments that get involved though). but first and foremost
lock up the MONEY. That operation was 6 figures at least in training (Flight Safety and Embry Riddle
ain't cheap), and living money for the 20 or so people involved, and probably more in kickers to the families.
Just a few thoughts about the possible reality.
Was just wondering about something. I guess I am not running with the 'majority'
on my views and that is really unlike me, but I have some problems with starting a
'long, protracted war' I am married to a Vietnam veteran, twice wounded (two purple hearts)
I listen to his views alot on the subject of war and combat and lots and LOTS of soldiers dying
and the causes for which we should 'shed' blood. I know you want us 'doves' (not sure I am one)
to give you an answer as to just what we should do. Speaking only for me, I don't have the answers.
I just fear that we will be opening the door to another long, horrible and bloody war.
And one I don't think will accomplish the goals that we are seeking.
I DO agree that we should go after who ever did
this horrible attack but only if we are sure that we
know exactly who it was. I think Iraq had a hand in this cowardly deed. But for a long range,
ten year war just does not sit well with me. I wonder just how long this 'euphoric' tone will last
when the endless body bags containing our sons and daughters start arriving home.
Will we still be so sure of the cause?
We have a 'draftable' son who we will drive to
Canada if need be.
We are outraged that a KNOWN WARTIME DESERTER is going to send thousands of young
people to their deaths. Sorry, BC, I just have a problem with the 'big' picture. I am looking past
the outrage and anger and sorrow. I feel so badly for all those people in NYC who died. But I do
feel that we will never ever get rid of terrorism just like we will never ever get rid of abortion.
Try as we may, it won't happen. Once again,
I feel a 'then tell us what to do' coming on from you,
I wish I KNEW the answers. I really wish I did, but sadly I think there MIGHT NOT BE AN ANSWER
to such horror. As long as we have people like Hitler, Saddam, Bin laden and others like them, we
will always have evilness around us. I just needed to vent. Carry on.
Support of our troops YES
george bush NO!
Everything depends on the proof Smirk the Skirt says he has to
If the proof holds water we must fight.
This war has already started.
We don't have the option to join it or not.
Subject: Dead links for afghan-soviet conflict
This troubles me...
I have been researching links about the soviet occupation of afghanistan from '79 to '89
and all I get is error 404 and "can't find server" messages on any link I find.
What's up with that???
Are they hiding facts from us? By they I mean
NO ONE has been successful in taking Afghanistan since the 1600's....are
we sending our men and women into a hell on earth they will not emerge from?
We know the russians failed miserably in thier
attempt to "colonize"
(for lack of a better term) afghanistan. Afghanistan rhymes with Viet Nam
Perhaps we should reassess our plan. Not afraid to kick ass...as long as we can....
Rob, not sure why, but most websites are too cheap to keep articles
Or maybe a former Page One story has been moved, so the link is now bad.
That's why when I run into something I think is important,
I have the "superior" link and the "forever" link.
When the newspaper or web site takes it down, I still have it.
Now, your second point...
It's become a pet peeve of mine, this "Afghanistan is too rugged" argument.
First, America is not Russia and we're not 19th century England.
Jesus, we have night vision and invisible planes and satellites that
can read newspapers
and planes that can intercept any phone call, fax, telegraph or e-mail in the world.
Not to mention soldiers with computers and GPS and cell phones etc etc etc.
And this stuff about how rugged it is?
Where does it say we will only fight in well-manicured meadows?
Where does it say we'll only fight in a balmy breeze?
America has deserts and mountains and glaciers and swamps and every
condition we'll likely ever fight in, so I say our boys are ready. I've been reading about
the Army bases in Washington State. Hopefully, they've been training in the mountains
so they can be ready for a war like this.
We have bases in Alaska, right?
Hopefully they're training to fight in the snow and ice.
We have bases in Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico and California.
Hopefully those boys are training to fight in the desert.
We have the smartest army, the best-equipt army, the best-trained army,
and we have an army that has the desirel to win because we're right and they're not
and they fucked with the wrong group when they took on New York and America.
Vietnam was a very expensive lesson for us, but we learned from that
They say you can learn from failure - and we really went to school in Vietnam.
This will not be another Vietnam.
I think our boys will do at least as well as they did in Desert
if President Pinhead can motivate the men with proof that the bad guy's gonna get fucked.
gee, right after the trade center tragedy you
were all for retaliation.
now you're criticizing bush for it.
can you say hypocrite?
can you say liberal hypocrite?
that is redundant
Steve, how'd you do on reading comprehension in grade school?
I'm not criticizing Bush for "retaliation."
How could I?
He hasn't retaliated.
I'm certain he can't even spell the word.
I've been extremely critical of his lack of brain power, his lack of
his lack of courage, his lack of strength, his lack of morals and so on.
He sends his boy Colin to Meet the Whore to say "proof is coming."
Then he says, "I can't tell you what we're
doing with the tens of billions
we're taking from the Treasury because that would tip our hand to bin Laden,"
and all the Democrats can say is, "Bush is
my president, and I'm standing by him,"
as they wave the flag and cash their paychecks even tho they're not doing their jobs.
About defending NYC and DC....
Here's some facts:
1. The FAA has been warning the gov about
lack of security in US airports for a while.
The gov didn't ask anyone I know to make airports secure, and NYC and DC were sitting ducks.
2. Who are we warring against?
"Terraists" (religious zealots)? My family left Ireland generations
to escape religious fanatism. They were promised "freedom of religion" here. I interpret that to mean
"freedom from religion". No one told us we had to have a religion to come here.
3. I frankly don't care who is the
rightful heir to Jerusalem. Never been there, don't plan on going.
If all of the middle-east countries want to go toe-to-toe with their religious books and spill blood over them,
that's their business.
4. There is not much I can do about
my tax dollars being spent on religious wars. Seems like it violates
my right to freedom of religion, but, hey..... no one else seems to care.
5. If this thing is so important,
why don't I see any of our political or religious leaders sending
members of their families to get their hands dirty? I will do a serious heads-up when I see that happen.
Until then, it's just another diversion.
6. You think I don't care?
I care about all innocent people being slaughtered in the name of religion.
I just don't see anyone wanting to do anything about it.
Subject: Why Don't the Afghans Fight Back? Here's why:
They "don't want it bad enough?"
Vernon H. Koresh on a cracker, BC!
Check these out:
You're spouting some free-range bullshit, BC.
By your reasoning, the
Jews "didn't want it bad enough", African slaves "didn't want it bad enough",
the Christians just "didn't want to get them bad, 'ol Romans enough."
They are a decimated, impoverished people with
no voice, no weapons, no
food, no medicine, and no infrastructure. It appears we have a very legit
beef with their leaders, but we've got no such thing with the average Afghan.
There are thousands of subjects on which I have no business commenting.
One of those is Jewish history.
But I think the Jews have a saying - "never again."
It's my best guess that that means, "Never
again will we line up next to a ditch
to make it easier for our Nazi slavemasters to bury us after we're shot."
The moral of the story?
Don't give up without a fight.
If you're going to die anyway, think Flight 93.
You're sorta saying the Afghanis have no will to fight back - and that
may be true.
But that's my point.
I can't imagine that happening in Oklahoma or Texas.
America could never be conquered because we're just too goddamn arrogant.
Well, that and the 200 million guns we have, but still...
If the Afghanis don't want it bad enough, there's not much we can do
to help them.
They need a Washington, a Jefferson and a Madison right now.
...and instead of "never again," maybe they could try "not today."
Subject: My experience with New Aircraft
you were talking about the
possibility of new types of aircraft.
about 9-10 years ago i was backpacking in West Virginia and spent a night
on top of Roaring Plains in the Monongahela National Forest. it was a clear night
and i sat back to look at the sky. almost immediately i noticed a single light moving
across the sky and as i watched it, it performed a loop the loop and continued
on it's course. that in itself was amazing to me but the light continued on and then
stopped and the light went out and then came back on but it was in a different
location as if it had hopped to it's new location.
THEN i noticed a few more lights in the same area
and then a few more,
they all seemed to be hovering or just "hanging out". they weren't headed anywhere.
their lights would get brighter then dim and then go out and "hop" a short distance.
there must have been a dozen of these objects. the coolest thing they did was this:
3 objects formed a triangle and brightened their
lights so the triangle was obvious to me.
then a few of the other objects wi! th dimmer lights filled in as if they were the sides of the triangle.
they just sat there a little while and then went back to hopping around. i finally had to sleep
but i stuck my head out of the tent about 3am and they were still there!
bartcop, you mentioned invisible planes... well
maybe they go invisible to humans when they "hop"...
maybe these invisible planes will be the last thing bin Laden "sees."
Actually, by "invisible" I meant stealth-capable, but now that you mention it,
the planes we saw were hopping, too. I got the distinct impression they were "playing."
They were getting used to the plane, seeing what it would do and stuff.
If bin Laden is hiding in a cave somewhere, maybe this isn't the right
war for those new planes,
but then again, invisible, flying warships can probably screw up a cave...
hi, would you mind sending me the pointer to the rush l. reaction to jerry F. please
i can't find it, but people told me to read it. thanks,
That would be Volume 597 - Pigs Fly
I'll never forget that issue - Rush told the truth - that's what made the pig fly.
Subject: what the hell?
Every time I look at your site the code is all
off, scribbles and blurs,
it's the only site I've seen that does that. what gives?
This site is produced by chimps using Netscape.
I'll bet you're using IE.
Subject: look into
My friend in England returned home from vacation
in France, called me today.
As we spoke about the aftermath of the terrible happenings in NYC, she told me
of a letter to the editor in the British Independent News. In this letter, it is noted
that 4000 Israelis who ordinarily work at the World Trade Center did not go to
work on Sept 11 because their government warned them it would be a security risk.
(I do not know the date of publication.)
The implications or this are interesting.
Please look into this. The Bush administration
may be reacting too fast and in the wrong direction.
I'd like to read the results of your investigations
on the front pages
of the SF Chronicle and the San Jose Mercury News!!
That rumor has been thoroughly discredited - didn't happen.
Subject: Sites ranking above bartcop.com
Don't worry about your ranking. Of the 70,000
sites ahead of you, most
likely 5000 are corporate sites that workers log into daily to do their jobs,
15,000 are bombed-out e-commerce sites, and 50,000 are porn.
Rage on, brother!
Carl, thanks for that - I feel better.