Current Issue
Back Issues
 Subscribe to BartBlog Feed
How to Read
Members ( need password)
Subscribe to BartCop!
Contact Us
Advertise With Us
Link to Us
Why Donate?
The Forum  -
The Reader
Poster Downloads
Shirts & Shots
BartCop Hotties
More Links
BFEE Scorecard
Perkel's Blog
Power of Nightmares
Clinton Fox Interview
Part 1, Part 2
Money Talks
Cost of Bush's greed
White Rose Society
Project 60
Chinaco Anejo


Search Now:
In Association with

Link Roll
American Politics Journal
Barry Crimmins
Betty Bowers
Consortium News 
Daily Howler
Daily Kos
Democatic Underground 
Disinfotainment Today 
Evil GOP Bastards
Faux News Channel 
Greg Palast
The Hollywood Liberal 
Internet Weekly
Jesus General
Joe Conason 
Josh Marshall
Liberal Oasis
Make Them Accountable 
Mark Morford 
Mike Malloy 
Political Humor -
Political Wire
Randi Rhodes
Rude Pundit 
Smirking Chimp
Take Back the Media
More Links


Locations of visitors to this page

Subject: How bad is the illegal alien problem in Arizona?

I was talking to a dude who actually thought the bill was a good idea, to keep the criminals out. 

I suspect the law is a bad thing, but I wish I had more facts.
If Arizona is under seige, maybe a temporary sweep would help authorities regain control?

I pointed out that most illegal aliens are very careful to not break any laws, for fear of being detected, 
and, if one is using your SS#, pays into your retirement fund for free, and most pay payroll social security, 
medicare, and every other tax normal employees pay.

You say "most" but that can be misleading.

If Arizona has 2M illegals (wild guess) and if 5% of them are vicious and depraved animals, 
that's 100,000 crazies in Arizona that don't belong and that sounds like a big problem to me.

(Reader: Use your head - don't write and say "I always knew you were a Fascist."
 I'm asking questions and gathering facts - something more people should do
 before they start screaming their uninformed opinion all over the airwaves.)

The drug smugglers and criminals he refered to are already breaking the law - how is another law 
going discourage them?  Far more - by huge margins - US criminals are natural born citizens than 
illegal aliens - but no one points that out.

I see your point, but Arizona has special circumstances. A bad man can commit some seriously heinous crimes, 
then go South a few miles and be out  of the jurisdiction of the police and that's a dangerous thing, especially when 
his description is "Hispanic-looking male."  That means he'll likely never be caught, which encourages more crime

If the same illegal commits those crimes in Oklahoma, he's ten hours from freedom
so let's admit Arizona and other border states have problems that other states don't have.

I'm not saying, "The new law is a good thing."
I'm asking, "Are things so bad in Arizona that the new law is justifiable?"
I'm asking because I don't know.

Some people try to deny the racial profiling aspect, but the law states the officer needs 'reasonable suspicion' 
in order to check your papers - how can a white guy do anything to demonstrate reasonable suspicion? 
On top of that, if you fail to have your papers, you are taken in and arrested and must pay a $200 arrest fee
- to cover the costs of taking you in for failing to carry your papers.

I agree - that's not a good situation and it's super-grossly unfair for a fifth generation American to have to 
carry papers with him to move around in a state where his great-grandfather was born, but If complete chaos
is the alternative, the new law, sadly, might be a temporary tool that could be put to use to protect people.

Again, I'm saying "maybe" and "if," so please, readers, chill your knee-jerk reaction to say, "You're just like Cheney."

Didn't Jews have to carry papers in Germany - before the concentration camps were started? 
Should we start building Latino concentration camps next?  Showers? 
 I Dillon

Maybe if authorities take unpopular actions now, a "1939 German situation" can be avoided.

I believe the hyper-violence (daily multiple murders, beheadings and such) is real in Mexico,
so I can't fault the average Arizonian for being worried that it's getting closer every day.

I think it's important to deal with the facts in front of our faces
instead of looking at the way things ought to be.

Have you even seen that 1984 Martin Sheen movie called The Guardian?

In it, Sheen lived in a NYC apartment that was kinda overrun by gang bangers.
He was a typical New York, ACLU liberal who was all about Miranda and police restraint, etc.

Then one day the gang grabbed him and demanded that he masturbate for their amusement. 
At the very last minute he was saved by the GOP Dirty Harry-type and then he became a Rethug.

Yes, I get that it was a movie - I hate when people write and tell me that.
But, like the torture 'debate' it's easy to say "always" and "never," that is, until you're 
pantsless in front of a gang of perverts who are demanding a one-man sex show.

Again, I'm just looking for some facts.

If Arizona is a wild west state where the thugs rule, then I might say the new law is necessary.
If crime is up 2 percent, then maybe I'd say the new law is not necessary and goes too far.

Anyone else agree with my common sense approach?

If I lived in Phoenix, I'd have a stronger opinion and I'd be able to defend it.

  Back to

Send e-mail to Bart

Privacy Policy
. .