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Subject: I'm sane, let's talk Israel
Israel should:
A. Negotiate the release of all Palestinian
prisoners in exchange for their soldiers.
B. Cease all aggression.
This will get the incoming missles stopped.
Next, obsolete Hezbolla:
A. Isreal will need to close their open
immigration policy for any and all Jews.
There has not been any space for
this influx in centuries.
B. Return settlers to their country of
origin
C. Pull back to any one of their boundaries
from the past 60 years.
This will create a lasting peace
Robert in Austin
Robert, I think I know which side you're on.
Thanks for the civil reply.
Subject: I'm sane, let's talk Israel
They should have immediately called for UN troops
to move in.
By reacting the way they have they've given Hezbollah
exactly what they wanted.
They're creating 100 more martyrs every day.
Of course they have the right to defend themselves.
It just wasn't the smart move.
James T
James, I think the problem is nobody but America would send troops.
The closest they got was Germany who said,
"We'll do it if Hezbollah agrees."
Thanks for the civil reply.
(That's two in a row with no violence :)
Subject: I'm wanting to talk Israel
Okie Fuck:
ha ha
I think our friend with the pain pills is back
:)
You want to hear from people who have something
to contribute. Yeah, right.
Your second, in what I'm sure will be a long
line of "loaded" questions/scenarios
to justify the actions of Israel, is as absurd
as your first. If Hezbollah was doing
precisely what you stated, than Israel should
do precisely - nothing. Why?
Because they would have absolutely no clue as
to: A) which exact building/location
from which the rockets were fired; and B) whether
or not the "terrorists"
(as in: "one mans' terrorist...") remained in
that particular building/location.
Good try though, Okie. Keep up the good Zionist
work.
ha ha
I am a Zionist tool!
Dude, you can whine about the question for the
next 6,000 years for all I care.
But if rockets are landing near your house, waxing
phylosophic is hardly your best move.
By the way, I sent you the Osama photos again,
along with the FBI spokesmans'
statement with regard to why Bin Ladens' list
of criminal actions does not include 911.
But, of course, you had to drop that hot potato.
You didn't send them with THIS e-mail - I wonder
why?
It must be because you, with your big MENSA brain,
have constructed questions
that were just too doggone hard for Ol' Bart
to crack, so I punted like a bitch.
ha ha
You were quite astute in your final characterization
of me and your chances of
surviving a real debate with your Okie ass intact.
I was, formerly, a MENSA member.
You keep saying that, but you write some of the
dumbest letters ever.
You're always in such a bad mood, I thought you
were a member of MENSTRA.
Love the way you italicize the words you can't
comprehend. Nice touch.
BC Johnny
BC Johnny, when you use those big MENSTRA words,
I just whip out my
dictionary and find out exactly what you certified,
bona
fide geniuses are talking about.
BTW, you never answered the simple question, but then again,
you never claimed you were sane, either.
I hope you get to feeling better.
Subject: I'm sane, let's talk Israel
Love the question and the premise!
Good to see you willing to talk about Israel.
"IF Hezbollah is launching rockets into Israel
from apartment buildings
and civilian locations in Southern Lebanon,
what should Israel do? "
Move the holy sand with those on it.
I like the less death option. But, I may be bat
shit crazy.
Didn't Hezbollah capture a Israelie soldier and
want to have a prisoner exchange?
Sounds like Israel took the first prisoner to
me. Then Israel started bombing and
Hezbollah started firing rockets. Maybe Israel
should have over reacted a little more
and dropped nukes.
oolmod
Move the holy sand?
Dude, are you in MENSA, too?
Subject: I'm sane, let's talk Israel
From what I've read, they are engaging in acts
of war against Israel,
so the people of Israel should defend themselves
with military might.
And at the same time, a diplomatic agreement
should be brokered.
But who would do that? Who is a respected, credible
negotiator in all the world who
could find out what Hezbollah really wants?
My vote would go to Bill Clinton in this case.
If only he was our Secretary of State, instead
of the woefully incompetent Rice.
Is the destruction of Israel/the Jewish people
their main goal? If so, this war will never end.
Is a nation to be called Palestine, granted
international trading rights, given Marshall Plan-style aid
their main goal? That almost happened when BC
was president, but Arafat pulled out at the last minute.
It is still possible, but would require
a lot of work, and I don't know who is willing to do that.
Rochelle
Maybe our next president will make Bill our Sec of State.
We'd have instant credibility all over the world again.
Subject: I'm sane, let's talk Israel
The US wholehearted backing of Israel in the current
situation seems ironic.
Israel's aggression was in response to Lebanon's
'taking' of 2 Israeli soldiers,
who at the time were on Israeli soil.
Doesn't the US, if not openly condone 'takings'
from soverign nations,
at least practice it (Osama Nasr Mostafa Hassan...)?
If Lebanon was following the lead of the most
powerful, righteous nation on
earth shouldn't they be applauded rather than
bombed?
Curious
Rob in St. Paul
Rob, good point.
Bush kidnaps.
Bush invades.
Bush murders.
Bush renders.
Bush lies.
Bush steals.
...but anyone else who does what Bush does is a terrorist!
Subject: I'm sane, let's talk Israel
There is no proof that Hizbollah is doing that,
except Israel's word, about as good as your president's.
IF it is true then both Hizbollah and Israel
are violating the laws of war by putting civilians at risk.
I think I can tell which side you're on.
In any case, Israel fired the first shots in this war despite what FOX News would have you believe.
I understand your position.
Question for you; does Hizbollah have the right
to defend itself?
Mike in Canada
Sure, but peace isn't their goal any more than peace was America's goal
in 1776.
A ceasefire is not a Hezbollah objective - am I right?
Subject: I'm sane, let's talk Israel
Well back in 1947, ...
I mean two weeks ago when this particular episode
started…
Yes I am cheating and going back another step
before the rocket attacks.
But the rocket attacks started when Israel used
military force to respond to the criminal
actions of Hezbollah who did their crime in response
to Israel using military to respond
to the crime of kidnapping the first IDF (Israel
Defense Force though we probably all
knew that) soldier. Let's leave Palestinian
Hamas out of it for now though to concentrate
of Lebanese/Syrian Hezbollah.
First Israel should have asked Lebanon to assist
in arresting the criminals involved in the
initial attacks where soldiers were killed and
kidnapped.
Not knowing Bush about the situation - why would
Israel need to ask?
Does Lebanon control Lebanon or does Hezbollah?
If Hezbollah is doing stuff that will cause a
shit storm,
why wouldn't Lebanon act in their own interests
and stop them?
Treat the Hezbollan terrorists involved like criminals
rather than glorifying them
by treating them as a legitimate political entity.
Then if unsatisfied by the reaction they should
have gone to the UN to get international
support against the criminals and the Lebanese
protecting them.
Then if unsatisfied, well, ...what they are doing but perhaps less indiscriminately.
Yes it would have taken longer but if they had
followed those steps they wouldn't be seen as
international bad boys but instead a wronged
nation. They also might have found the weak
Lebanese government would have actually gone
along with a police action instead of a military one.
The IDF would have been assisting the Lebanese
government who wants Hezbollah gone about
as much as the Israelis do.
That underlined statement is confusing.
Why didn't Lebanon rout out Hezbollah?
And if Hezbollah is popular, why can't they do
better than 10% of their government?
A diplomatic approach gains more help with less
world wide condemnation.
Come to think of it, isn't that what we said
about Bush using Diplomacy before war back a few years ago?
Ole Zenferret…
A lot of people agree that, if America can be a bully, why can't Israel?
If only we had a president who had respect for the law and soverign
nations.
Good one, dude.
See you at The Palms.
Subject: I'm sane, let's talk Israel
I believe the whole thing is a ruse on the part
of Israel and the US government.
The purpose of this attack on Lebanon is to continue
with the neocon agenda of
pacifying the middle east. The US is overcommitted
in Iraq and Israel is coming
to the rescue by blindsiding opponents of the
neocon agenda by attacking Lebanon
(who nobody was thinking about).
Last year, the Bush White House literally forced
Syria (a stabilizing influence) out of
Lebanon after the Hariri assassination. The current
lebanese government is a fledgling
democracy after years of war and has no real
control over the southern region of Lebanon
where Hezbollah resides (Syria was taking care
of this before they were shown the door.).
By bombing Beirut, Israel is simply destroying
a country getting it's shit together.
None of this makes any sense unless one considers
Israeli interests in tandem with the interests
of the US military industrial complex and the
oil producers. Israel, and the oil producers prefer
a destabilized middle east in which Israel's
expansionist agenda dovetails nicely with the oil
producers' preference for doing business with
dictators over democracies (easier to deal with
as they are corruptible and their word is law).
The military industrial complex is just happy
selling lots of weapons and the US congress is
more than happy to buy them for Israel as
AIPAC probably has dirt on most of them. (Congress
is scared to death of being labeled as
anti-Israel. There's gotta be something to it.
Even Hillary is a shill to Israeli causes.)
Possible cheap shot.
Can any candidate be president if they
are seen as anti-Israel?
The whole thing is very shameful as I see it.
And as a Canadian, I simply have decided to
boycott anything American until the march to
facism is halted. It's all I can do.
As to what Israel should do.
Saying sorry for 58 years of slow genocide would
be a good start.
Rob A.
Rob, saying "Sorry" would be a defense against the shelling?
I'm not sure your idea is practical, but thanks for the input.
Subject: I'm sane, let's talk Israel
Israel should employ the aid of the US and the
democratic government of Lebanon to
use fortified Lebanese troops to clean out weapons
of war from Southern Lebanon.
I know already what you'll say… "There isn't time!
Those bombs are on the way!
Will you murder 9 million New Yorkers to avoid
torturing the terror…"
Oh, wait a minute, that last is from another
argument.
ha ha
A little levity is good when tensions are running
high.
This is an effort which should have already begun
as soon as Lebanon's civil war concluded.
It would also help if Israel made attempts to
HELP the Palestinians formulate and secure their own nation.
That would have the effect of diminishing the
profile of Hamas and Hezbollah.
And, I know, I know, Hamas and Hezbollah don't
do much to alleviate the situation.
But one of the things we learned a long time
ago, or should have learned, that when you're confronted
with a terrorist organization (or some other
bad faith actor) who claims to protect the interests of a group
of people, you need to work directly with that
group of people to address their issues in good faith.
That has the effect of reducing the support from
that group of people toward the bad actor. Hezbollah
understands that lesson better than we do.
That's why they help the Lebanese locals, and in return the
locals allow them to set up shop in their homes.
Is it your claim that the "terrorists" are smarter than us?
While your argument would be that Israel has to
do something to stop those missiles RIGHT NOW,
why then are they bombing the shit out of Beirut?
The missiles are not coming from there.
Hezbollah may have organization there, but it
is no immediate threat to Israel as long as they remain in Beirut.
Lebanon is an innocent actor in all of this.
They are a fledgling secular democracy, which
has not yet the power to limit Hezbollah.
We should he helping Lebanon achieve that power,
rather than spending our time dodging IEDs in Iraq
(which wouldn't be happening absent Bush's greed
and stupidity). Anyway, that's the direction
we should be moving in rather than sending Condi
to the Middle East to buy shoes.
Jimmy the Sane Sausolitolian
This is off the top of my head (Like the rest of it is well-thought
out :) but we might be seeing
a parallel between Lebanon and the poor children locked in the compound
with Vern in Waco.
If your parents or guardians or neighborhood militia or capo regime
wants a war,
the children and the dependents of such people have an unfair shake
in life and that's bad.
From what we see on the news
(don't write) Hezbollah fires rockets from an apartment
in Southern Lebanon into Israel and then Israel takes out that apartment
building to stop the rockets..
It would seem the fate of that apartment building is decided when Hezbollah
wheels their
rocket launchers into the courtyard of the apartment building.
I'm not saying it's right and I'm not saying it's fair.
It's as unfair as what happened to Koresh's kids.
It's as unfair as being born in North Korea.
It's as unfair as being a military age goat-herder in Afghanistan when
we invaded.
Subject: I'm sane, let's talk Israel
Good Afternoon,
I'm a Lebanese Liberal Suni Muslim from a village
in the Chebaa farms region (in South Lebanon).
I am also a member of the Rafiq Harriri Future
Movement (not a Hezballah supporter),
and would like to attempt to answer your question:
I hope to learn something, but trust me, you might
never speak to an American
who knows less about your situation than Ol'
Bart
First of all I'd like to point out that you didn't
ask,
"what should hezballah do when Israel drops bombs
into Lebanon".
That might make an excellent Second Question.
The fact of the matter, bombs and rockets are
being traded.
Everytime a rocket drops in Israel, Israel says
"what are we suppose to do?"
and then they drop bombs in Lebanon. Every
time a bomb drops in Lebanon,
Hezballah says "what are we suppose to do?" and
then they shoot rockets into Israel.
It's a never ending cycle of war without true
objective. It is sensless really, on both sides.
I'm with you so far, but the status quo favors
Israel, right?
If everybody stopped, Hezbollah and the Palestinians
would be losers because
they see themselves as the oppressed people (using
time-saving words).
So doesn't the non-Israeli side "need" war more
than Israel does?
If you asked this question 3 weeks ago, I would
tell you give the Lebanese Government
more time, we were negotiating with hezballah
and their support was diminishing.
They only hold 10% of the seats in government.
Israel had 22 years to meet one simple UN resolution...
Lebanon only had two years to meet a very difficult
and complicated UN resolution,
without the support and funding that Israel has.
Regardless, Lebanon was still making progress
in the talks.
You say they only hold 10% of the seats, but (just
guessing) don't they run the country?
If they don't run the country, why weren't they
arrested or disarmed by the 90% who do?
I keep hearing, "Lebanon
isn't Hezbollah, and Hezbollah isn't Lebanon."
If this is true, where was Lebanon when Hezbollah
needed to be governed?
In my examples above, Vern's kids and the North
Korean people never claimed they
controlled their overlords, but you seem to be
saying that Lebanon controlled Hezbollah
so I'm wondering why they didn't do their jobs.
Now, Israel has put itself in a situation where
even the soldiers of the socialist party
(sworn enemies of Hezballah) are going to South
Lebanon to fight along side them.
They have truly united the country in ways I've
never seen before, Christians, Druze,
Muslims standing together against Israel.
OK...
Here's my answer to your question: Seeing
that all of Israel's military objectives have failed
miserably, all they have achieved so far is the
destruction of my country. This military option
has never really brought them peace. For
once they need to take a step back, and begin with
fair negotiation with the opposing sides (fair
being the key word).
Don't tell me they have done this before, because
that is a lie.
Israel only "talks" with those who agree to surrender
everything.
But Lebanon will never surrender, because like
the Israelis, we are proud of our country.
I pray for my family and friends trapped back
home in South Lebanon.
Leb in Canada
Leb, I appreciate your imput, but asking one side
to stop fighting isn't an answer,
especially to the question that was asked.
Thanks for the civil reply.
Side Fact: The majority in South
Lebanon are Suni Muslims...
Western Media doesn't know what they are talking about.
Possibility: They know, but they are paid
to lie to us.