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WELCOME TO BARTCOP.COM A modem, a smart mouth and the truthNews and Commentary NOT Approved by Karl Rove, bcause vicious extremists can NOT be appeased.

BCR 152 is up  Links at bottom

 Wednesday  May 20, 2009  Vol 2338 - The Moaning Gods 

Quote of the Day

"Pelosi's become toxic. She's hurting the country. 
  She's bad for morale of the CIA. And she's trying 
  to cover her own tracks.  She's a partisan person, 
  and she needs to get off of it." 
      -- Lindsay Graham, trying to remember
          which side of the torture debate he's on,   Link


In Today's Tequila Treehouse...
Arrow Winning the Torture Debate  
Arrow Club for Growth killing GOP? HOT
Arrow The Bush Doctrine Of Torture HOT
Arrow Catholics and Child Abuse HOT
Arrow Why I Hate Obama 
Arrow Torture and Amnesia HOT
Arrow Maher and Colbert Tonight 
Arrow Charlize Theron & Gays 



Erik Organic Furniture

Erik has been advertising on  bartcom.com  since 2002.


"I want to be very clear because I think there's been some misinterpretation of my views...I believe the speaker. 
I believe the speaker when she says she was not specifically briefed on the types of (torture) that were being employed." 
     -- Henny Stoyer, who wants to be speaker so bad he can taste it,   Link

  The reason for this "clarification" is Stoyer previously said he didn't believe her.

   Send e-mail to Bart  |  Discuss it on The BartCop ForumComment on it at the BartBlog!

The Torture Debate -- Who's Winning?
 That's easy to answer - the Democrats refuse to fight 


Anytime you can mold public opinion with the facts most synpathetic to your view, you can win. But doing that isn't very easy, 
and I don't expect it to happen this time. Most people are not very attentive to the details of policy arguments. They are somewhat 
attentive to the personalities involved, which is why Cheney's intervention is good news for the Democrats. But I wouldn't expect 
the debate to play out like a national seminar on torture. It's more likely to resemble a partisan food fight.

Which is the main reason I think their Pelosi gambit could backfire -- it offers the chance to de-partisanize the debate. Many Republicans 
are clinging to torture because they don't want to believe that their party has embraced Cold war era communist torture techniques.
Liberals' goal here ought to be to make torture something that neither party will accept going forward. So de-polarizing the debate 
is the most promising path. Do the Republicans think Pelosi is the key figure here? Ok, knock yourselves out! Let's investigate the 
Pelosi torture regime in full. Then maybe we can put an end to the vicious Pelosi torture era.

The bigger problem is the Democrats refusal to fight.

Each time a Rethug tears up a subpoena, Patrick Leahy fires off a hot letter.
Each time the White House told Leahy, "Go fuck yourself," he did just that.

Until our elected leaders choose to fight, progress will be tough. 

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"Michael tom Steele owes everything to Obama.   Before Obama was elected, Steele was just another face in the crowd. 
. After Barack was elected, they dragged Steele into the spotlight, as if to say "Well, looky here, we have one of them, too."
     -- steven howard duffy,     Link

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Club for Growth Killing the GOP?


Arlen Specter's switch underscores the clout of Club For Growth, a conservative group that targets Republicans 
it brands insufficiently committed to low taxes and small government. Are the group's tactics good or bad for Republicans?

Specter fingered Club For Growth as the key factor behind his decision, saying he would have lost the Republican primary 
to a Club-backed rival. His decision has prompted some Republicans to turn on the organization, saying it backs those who 
are so conservative that they then lose to Democrats.

"If their goal is to increase the Democrats' numbers in Congress, they're doing a very good job," said Rep. Steven LaTourette (R., Ohio), 
a moderate who won his seat in 1994. "Do they want a permanent minority of 140 people as pure as Caesar's wife, or a Republican 
majority that can get them 70% of the issues that are important to them?" (Republicans hold 178 House seats and 40 Senate seats.)"

I like the Club for Growth.
If it's going to drive all the sane Republicans away it can only help us.

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 Subject: New 'Prisoner Abuse' Photographs Emerge 

Bart, you asked should Obama have risked his presidency and the next eight years on those photos?
Especially since the pictures are already out...


Michael Dare

Michael, thanks for that.

Warning - some pictures are extreme.

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We're on Twitter

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"Why is Newt Gingrich on my news crawl this morning?
  Last time he was interesting, I hadn't hit puberty yet."
    -- Meghan McCain, fighting to stay in the Grand Old Party of Weasels,     Link

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Subject: I'm beginning to think you just don't get it.


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If you're near Santa Fe..

Click  Here

...until the end of the month.

The Bush Doctrine Of Torture


They said that Saddam was likely to be a threat some time in the future and we couldn't wait for the (ticking) smoking gun to come 
in the form of a mushroom cloud. The torture regime is based on the same logic: we don't know if there's a ticking time bomb, but in 
case there is we need to torture prisoners just in case they have some information about one in the future.
The Bush Doctrine is the source of all this horror. The idea that you can invade another country simply because they might pose 
a threat someday is nothing more that than the illegal concept of preventive war (which the Bushies rebranded as "preemptive" war.) 
And it's what leads to the idea that you can torture and imprison indefinitely in the name of that war. You don't need a real ticking 
time bomb, just the belief that there might be one someday.

Torture, therefore, is an intrinsic feature of the Bush Doctrine. It all flows from there.

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Mike Malloy Live


"Pelosi made some outrageous accusations last week where she said that the CIA lied to her 
  and lied systematically over a period of years. That is a very, very serious charge."
       --  Rep Pete Hoekstra,     Link

 Hey Pete, how many soldiers died because of Pelosi's lies?
 The answer is zero.

 So if Pelosi's lies are "very, very serious," how do you characterize the lies from Bush & Cheney?
 Each of these boxes represents 400 American soldier coffins 

 Pete, tell us again how serious Pelosi's lies are...

  Send e-mail to Bart  |  Discuss it on The BartCop ForumComment on it at the BartBlog

 Subject: I'm with Cindy

Bart, it unnerves me when you say things like this:
> "Cindy, it may be time for you to go back to private life."
First, I still like Cindy.  And I think I am beginning to agree with her. 
Second, she didn't say Obama was a racist; you said she did.

She said: "Besides filling his cabinet with militarists and members of 
the white establishment, he has selected very few persons of color."

That's either an accusation of racism OR she's saying Obama doesn't 
have the brains to recognize people of color when  he sees them.

Third, I think it's becoming clear that the financial industry ain't gonna fail and never was gonna.  
It looks like they are threatening to make us BELIEVE they failed, in order to foment civil unrest, and Obama caved to that.
How can a liberal -- any liberal -- be happy with the following:
- Looks like torture and treasonous criminality (again!) are gonna go unpunished.
- Looks like there will be no Employee Free Choice Act. Hence wages & benefits will continue to drop.
- Looks like there will be no nationalized health care plan.
- Looks like the defense budget will continue to eat up 50% of our taxes.
- Looks like faith-based tax-funded programs will still be shoring up the wannabe theocrats' power base.
- Looks like the country just doesn't give a shit about liberalism any more. 
- Looks like Republican lite is the best we'll ever do.
How can any liberal be happy with this?  
It's not time to shut up.  It's time to grieve. 
(I hope me and Cindy are wrong.)

Pipe, you make me look like an optimist :)

Click here for a more detailed answer

Oh, and thanks again for the donation.
It's cool when people donate and argue :)

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Something for the Hillary haters...


"Jesse Ventura should stop smoking whatever he's been smoking. 
  It seriously should be a crime, to be that dumb on TV." 
     -- Joe Scarborough, angry that Jesse said he'd been waterboarded and it was torture,     Link

 Hey Joe, should it also be a crime to murder an intern in your office
 then get your crooked governor (Jeb) to import a crooked and disgraced coroner
 from another state to dummy up an autopsy that said she died of natural causes?

   Send e-mail to Bart  | Discuss it on The BartCop ForumComment on it at the BartBlog

Still the best advertising bargain on the Net

Banner ads by the day,
by the week,
or by the month

Click to get more Hits

Catholics and Child Abuse
 Ireland braces for the nine-years-late report


Irish Catholic church child abuse
 It was 'A cruel and wicked system'


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Are YOU on our Links Page?

Why I Hate Obama
 by Bruce Walker  (who?)


We are finding that President Obama is really "Slick Barry."  I believe it is a mistake to associate either man with passionate 
political or ideological beliefs.  These perpetual adolescents believe in their own magic, their ability to charm the other kids who 
came from nuclear families in middle class neighborhoods, their craving insistence to turn everyone into someone who likes them. 
It is all about them as they vainly struggle to fill a void in the deepest part of the heart.

It is no accident that the lives of these two men took remarkably similar paths.  Both men eschewed military service. Not these guys.    

Whoa, there's a big difference.
Clinton tried to stop the war for everybody - we lost 55,000 soldiers in that war, remember?
Bush & Cheney loved that war - as long as someone else was fighting in their place. 

Barry Obama could have found the military a wonderful means to advance as a black man.  Few institutions of 
American society have provided more room for advancement for black men than the military.  But he declined.

To hear this guy tell it, Bush & Cheney can't fit all their Glory-of-War medals on their chest.
At least Clinton and Obama didn't sign up for military service and then go AWOL.

Thanks to Dan Rather for giving Bush an all-time, historical immunity from the AWOL charge.

  Send e-mail to Bart  |  Discuss it on The BartCop ForumComment on it at the BartBlog

Subject: behind Obama 

The Repubs have wrecked everything beyond belief and they have the MSM babbling out their talking points 24/7.  
Obama is only human.  He'll win some and he'll lose some.  But, if at the end of it all, this country's in better shape 
(like it was at the end of Clinton's term), then isn't that the best we can hope for?

Or maybe they want a Republican back in power so they can moan and groan.
The problem is that there might not be much of a country left if that happens.

Keep swinging the hammer.
 Marc McK

  Send e-mail to Bart  |  Discuss it on The BartCop ForumComment on it at the BartBlog


"Cheney is in New York to see all of his favorite shows: 'Phantom', 'Wicked' and 'Stomp.'"
     -- Letterman

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Marty's Entertainment Page

Marty always has good stuff.

Click on the E!

 Subject: Obama disappoints the left

Hey Bart,

Obama was the perfect candidate because he's human. 

The lunatic "disappointed" fringe who genuflect at the altar of the great and mighty Kos can all go fuck themselves:
They'd be disappointed with anyone who hadn't saved the world in 100 days, put a legal bong full of Maui's finest 
in every bowl and made it possible for all of us to retire with Bernie Madoff's lifestyle by the age of 32.  

Capitalism ain't going away, neither is war, pestilence or greed 
and there's damn little any president, even Kos's, can do about that.
 Joe in Maui.

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Torture Memos and Historical Amnesia 
 by Noam Chomsky 


It was reasonable to suppose that Guantanamo was a torture chamber. Why else send prisoners where they would be beyond 
the reach of the law -- a place, incidentally, that Washington is using in violation of a treaty forced on Cuba at the point of a gun? 
Security reasons were, of course, alleged, but they remain hard to take seriously. The same expectations held for the Bush bastards'
"black sites," or secret prisons, and for extraordinary rendition, and they were fulfilled.

More importantly, torture has been routinely practiced from the early days of the conquest of the national territory, and continued 
to be used as the imperial ventures of the "infant empire" -- as George Washington called the new republic -- extended to the Philippines, 
Haiti, and elsewhere. Keep in mind as well that torture was the least of the many crimes of aggression, terror, subversion, and economic 
strangulation that have darkened U.S. history, much as in the case of other great powers. 

Why do they claim Gitmo is secure?
Are they saying nobody can escape Cuba and use a door to float to the US?

  Send e-mail to Bart  |  Discuss it on The BartCop ForumComment on it at the BartBlog

 Subject: News from the real world 

Dear Church of Reality Members,

About 3 weeks ago I filed the opening brief in the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals on our appeal of the DEA decision 
to deny us religious use of Marijuana. Rather than to explain it all here it's easier just to read the brief. So here's the link.

I'm very optimistic about this case and I think it's very likely we are going to win this. But it won't be quick. 
I'm guessing that it will be resolved in the next year. I'm not a lawyer, but I am pretty good at this. 
The DEA is due to respond this week. Let me know if you have any feedback.
 Marc Perkel

  Send e-mail to Bart  | Discuss it on The BartCop ForumComment on it at the BartBlog

Subject: WTF?

Okay, I get it.  You are in bed with the corporatists.

Then why am I unable to pay my VISA bill in full?

You almost got me there--I actually believed you were "one of us".  
Cindy Sheehan, one of the true heroes, patriots and truth-tellers, does not deserve your calumniation of her.  

I don't even know what calumniation means, so I doubt I'm guilty of it.  
And really, after 15 years and as many as 4,000 pages, you finally found 
a single paragraph that gives away my true nature as a corporatist pig?  (Or it is dog?)

Your blind love of the corporatist dogs Clinton, and your steadfast refusal to see that Obama is selling us out 
to the banksters, works to support and further the interests of the very progressives you claim to be in favor of.

So, I'm guilty of supporting the Democrats - and that makes me "one of them?"

I'm outta here.  The link to your blog has been deleted.  And as an ex-alcoholic, 
let me tell you that the stuff will totally waste your judgment--something sure has. 

Good luck--but not with your attempts to kill progressivism.
Bye now

Passion is a good thing, but only when it's mixed with some common sense.

  Send e-mail to Bart  | Discuss it on The BartCop ForumComment on it at the BartBlog

Need to take a sudden trip?

 Here's the deal:

TV Stuff

The judges on Idol have already declared Adam Lambert the winner.
Last night they told the other guy he should feel good about getting as far as he did.

I'm so old, I remember when they let the fans decide who won.

Tonight - Bill Maher is on Leno, who will introduce Maher as "controversial,"
but when he has a right-wing bastard on, he doesn't use that perjorative, does he?

Plus Stephen Colbert on Dave.

  Send e-mail to Bart  |  Discuss it on The BartCop ForumComment on it at the BartBlog

 Subject: Pelosi

Bart, you wrote:

> If someone has proof Pelosi is telling the truth - what are they waiting for?
> And can we find a way to excuse her for giving Bush a blank check to commit crimes?

There is no documentation.  There is no proof.  
The congressmen were not allowed to even take any notes at all.  None.

I believe that to be incorrect.
There are "classified notes" that Obama could release if he wanted.
Now we know another reason why.
Bush was not given a blank check though he wasnít restrained nearly enough.  Laughably not enough.

To me, "Impeachment is off the table" is a blank check.

Donít let the Republicans win the argument by convincing to us to associate Bush having tortured 
with Pelosi making the political calculation that impeachment would have hurt the Democratic party too much to try it.   
She might have been right.  She might not.
Remember the biggest gain the Democrats made before 1996 was when impeachment of Clinton became too real.
Impeachment is not a criminal justice action Ė it is a purely political action.  I do believe it would have failed.

That's a valid point - but when you announce in the most public way possible that the war criminals 
WILL NOT be held accountable, you only encourage the criminals to commit more crimes.

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