Wednesday May 20, 2009 Vol
2338 - The Moaning Gods
"Pelosi's become toxic. She's hurting the country. She's bad for morale of the CIA. And
she's trying to cover her own tracks. She's
a partisan person, and she needs to get off of it." -- Lindsay Graham,
trying to remember
which side of the torture debate he's on,
Erik has been advertising on bartcom.com since 2002.
"I want to be very clear because I think there's
been some misinterpretation of my views...I believe the speaker. I believe the speaker when she says she was
not specifically briefed on the types of (torture) that were being employed."
-- Henny Stoyer, who wants to be speaker so bad he can taste it,
The reason for this "clarification" is Stoyer previously said
he didn't believe her.
Excerpt: Anytime you can mold public opinion with the
facts most synpathetic to your view, you can win. But doing that isn't
and I don't expect it to happen this time. Most
people are not very attentive to the details of policy arguments. They
attentive to the personalities involved, which
is why Cheney's intervention is good news for the Democrats. But I wouldn't
the debate to play out like a national seminar
on torture. It's more likely to resemble a partisan food fight.
Which is the main reason I think their Pelosi
gambit could backfire -- it offers the chance to de-partisanize the debate.
are clinging to torture because they don't want
to believe that their party has embraced Cold war era communist torture
Liberals' goal here ought to be to make torture
something that neither party will accept going forward. So de-polarizing
is the most promising path. Do the Republicans
think Pelosi is the key figure here? Ok, knock yourselves out! Let's investigate
Pelosi torture regime in full. Then maybe we
can put an end to the vicious Pelosi torture era.
The bigger problem is the Democrats refusal to fight.
Each time a Rethug tears up a subpoena, Patrick Leahy fires off a hot
Each time the White House told Leahy, "Go
fuck yourself," he did just that.
Until our elected leaders choose to fight, progress will be tough.
"Michael tom Steele owes everything to Obama.
Before Obama was elected, Steele was just another face in the crowd. . After Barack was elected, they dragged Steele
into the spotlight, as if to say "Well, looky here, we have one of them,
too." -- steven howard duffy,
Excerpt: Arlen Specter's switch underscores the clout
of Club For Growth, a conservative group that targets Republicans
it brands insufficiently committed to low taxes
and small government. Are the group's tactics good or bad for Republicans?
Specter fingered Club For Growth as the key factor
behind his decision, saying he would have lost the Republican primary
to a Club-backed rival. His decision has prompted
some Republicans to turn on the organization, saying it backs those who
are so conservative that they then lose to Democrats.
"If their goal is to increase the Democrats' numbers
in Congress, they're doing a very good job," said Rep. Steven LaTourette
a moderate who won his seat in 1994. "Do they
want a permanent minority of 140 people as pure as Caesar's wife, or a
majority that can get them 70% of the issues
that are important to them?" (Republicans hold 178 House seats and 40 Senate
I like the Club for Growth.
If it's going to drive all the sane Republicans away it can only help
Excerpt: They said that Saddam was likely to be a threat
some time in the future and we couldn't wait for the (ticking) smoking
gun to come
in the form of a mushroom cloud. The torture
regime is based on the same logic: we don't know if there's a ticking time
bomb, but in
case there is we need to torture prisoners just
in case they have some information about one in the future.
The Bush Doctrine is the source of all this horror.
The idea that you can invade another country simply because they might
a threat someday is nothing more that than the
illegal concept of preventive war (which the Bushies rebranded as "preemptive"
And it's what leads to the idea that you can
torture and imprison indefinitely in the name of that war. You don't need
a real ticking
time bomb, just the belief that there might be
Torture, therefore, is an intrinsic feature of
the Bush Doctrine. It all flows from there.
"Pelosi made some outrageous accusations last
week where she said that the CIA lied to her and lied systematically over a period
of years. That is a very, very serious charge." -- Rep Pete Hoekstra,
Hey Pete, how many soldiers died because of Pelosi's lies?
The answer is zero.
So if Pelosi's lies are "very, very serious,"
how do you characterize the lies from Bush & Cheney?
Each of these boxes represents 400 American soldier coffins
Pete, tell us again how serious Pelosi's lies are...
Bart, it unnerves me when you say things like
> "Cindy, it may be time for you to go back
to private life."
First, I still like Cindy. And I think
I am beginning to agree with her.
Second, she didn't say Obama was a racist; you
said she did.
She said:"Besides filling his cabinet with militarists and members of the white establishment, he has selected very
few persons of color."
That's either an accusation of racism OR she's
saying Obama doesn't
have the brains to recognize people of color
when he sees them.
Third, I think it's becoming clear that the financial
industry ain't gonna fail and never was gonna.
It looks like they are threatening to make us
BELIEVE they failed, in order to foment civil unrest, and Obama caved to
How can a liberal -- any liberal -- be happy
with the following:
- Looks like torture and treasonous criminality
(again!) are gonna go unpunished.
- Looks like there will be no Employee Free Choice
Act. Hence wages & benefits will continue to drop.
- Looks like there will be no nationalized health
- Looks like the defense budget will continue
to eat up 50% of our taxes.
- Looks like faith-based tax-funded programs
will still be shoring up the wannabe theocrats' power base.
- Looks like the country just doesn't give a
shit about liberalism any more.
- Looks like Republican lite is the best we'll
How can any liberal be happy with this?
It's not time to shut up. It's time to
(I hope me and Cindy are wrong.)
"Jesse Ventura should stop smoking whatever
he's been smoking. It seriously should be a crime,
to be that dumb on TV."
-- Joe Scarborough, angry that Jesse said he'd been waterboarded and it
was torture, Link
Hey Joe, should it also be a crime to
murder an intern in your office,
then get your crooked governor (Jeb) to import a crooked and
from another state to dummy up an autopsy that said she died
of natural causes?
Excerpt: We are finding that President Obama is really
"Slick Barry." I believe it is a mistake to associate either man
political or ideological beliefs. These
perpetual adolescents believe in their own magic, their ability to charm
the other kids who
came from nuclear families in middle class neighborhoods,
their craving insistence to turn everyone into someone who likes them.
It is all about them as they vainly struggle
to fill a void in the deepest part of the heart.
It is no accident that the lives of these two
men took remarkably similar paths. Both men eschewed military service.
Not these guys.
Whoa, there's a big difference.
Clinton tried to stop the war for everybody -
we lost 55,000 soldiers in that war, remember?
Bush & Cheney loved that war - as
long as someone else was fighting in their place.
Barry Obama could have found the military a wonderful
means to advance as a black man. Few institutions of
American society have provided more room for
advancement for black men than the military. But he declined.
To hear this guy tell it, Bush & Cheney can't fit all their Glory-of-War
medals on their chest.
At least Clinton and Obama didn't sign up for military service and
then go AWOL.
Thanks to Dan Rather for giving Bush an all-time, historical immunity
from the AWOL charge.
The Repubs have wrecked everything beyond belief
and they have the MSM babbling out their talking points 24/7.
Obama is only human. He'll win some and
he'll lose some. But, if at the end of it all, this country's in
(like it was at the end of Clinton's term), then
isn't that the best we can hope for?
Or maybe they want a Republican back in power
so they can moan and groan.
The problem is that there might not be much of
a country left if that happens.
Obama was the perfect candidate because
The lunatic "disappointed" fringe who genuflect
at the altar of the great and mighty Kos can all go fuck themselves:
They'd be disappointed with anyone who hadn't
saved the world in 100 days, put a legal bong full of Maui's finest
in every bowl and made it possible for all of
us to retire with Bernie Madoff's lifestyle by the age of 32.
Capitalism ain't going away, neither is war, pestilence
and there's damn little any president, even Kos's,
can do about that.
Joe in Maui.
Excerpt: It was reasonable to suppose that Guantanamo
was a torture chamber. Why else send prisoners where they would be beyond
the reach of the law -- a place, incidentally,
that Washington is using in violation of a treaty forced on Cuba at the
point of a gun?
Security reasons were, of course, alleged, but
they remain hard to take seriously. The same expectations held for the
"black sites," or secret prisons, and for extraordinary
rendition, and they were fulfilled.
More importantly, torture has been routinely practiced
from the early days of the conquest of the national territory, and continued
to be used as the imperial ventures of the "infant
empire" -- as George Washington called the new republic -- extended to
Haiti, and elsewhere. Keep in mind as well that
torture was the least of the many crimes of aggression, terror, subversion,
strangulation that have darkened U.S. history,
much as in the case of other great powers.
Why do they claim Gitmo is secure?
Are they saying nobody can escape Cuba and use a door to float to the US?
About 3 weeks ago I filed the opening brief in
the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals on our appeal of the DEA decision
to deny us religious use of Marijuana. Rather
than to explain it all here it's easier just to read the brief. So
here's the link.
I'm very optimistic about this case and I think
it's very likely we are going to win this. But it won't be quick.
I'm guessing that it will be resolved in the
next year. I'm not a lawyer, but I am pretty good at this.
The DEA is due to respond this week. Let me know
if you have any feedback.
Okay, I get it. You are in bed with the
Then why am I unable to pay my VISA bill in full?
You almost got me there--I actually believed you
were "one of us".
Cindy Sheehan, one of the true heroes, patriots
and truth-tellers, does not deserve your calumniation of her.
I don't even know what calumniation means,
so I doubt I'm guilty of it.
And really, after 15 years and as many as 4,000
pages, you finally found
a single paragraph that gives away my
true nature as a corporatist pig? (Or it is dog?)
Your blind love of the corporatist dogs Clinton,
and your steadfast refusal to see that Obama is selling us out
to the banksters, works to support and further
the interests of the very progressives you claim to be in favor of.
So, I'm guilty of supporting the Democrats - and
that makes me "one of them?"
I'm outta here. The link to your blog has
been deleted. And as an ex-alcoholic,
let me tell you that the stuff will totally waste
your judgment--something sure has.
Good luck--but not with your attempts to kill
Passion is a good thing, but only when it's mixed with some common sense.
> If someone has proof Pelosi is telling the
truth - what are they waiting for? > And can we find a way to excuse her for
giving Bush a blank check to commit crimes?
There is no documentation. There is no proof.
The congressmen were not allowed to even take
any notes at all. None.
I believe that to be incorrect.
There are "classified notes" that Obama could
release if he wanted.
Now we know another reason why.
Bush was not given a blank check though he wasnít
restrained nearly enough. Laughably not enough.
To me, "Impeachment is off the table" is a blank
Donít let the Republicans win the argument by
convincing to us to associate Bush having tortured
with Pelosi making the political calculation
that impeachment would have hurt the Democratic party too much to try it.
She might have been right. She might not.
Remember the biggest gain the Democrats made
before 1996 was when impeachment of Clinton became too real.
Impeachment is not a criminal justice action
Ė it is a purely political action. I do believe it would have failed.
That's a valid point - but when you announce in
the most public way possible that the war criminals
WILL NOT be held accountable, you only encourage
the criminals to commit more crimes.
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